You must stay
responsive
and agile
For our first Up-Close interview of 2024, we had the privilege of interviewing Alex von Schirmeister, the Managing Director for UK, Europe, Middle East & Africa at Xero. In this interview, we discuss with Alex the key moments that have shaped his career, how he successfully operates across multiple markets and how his leadership style has evolved throughout his career.
Please talk us through the milestones in your career and the key moments that led you to taking this role and becoming the MD for Xero across the UK & EMEA.
I'll try and keep it brief as there are a few of them and one of the reasons why there are quite a few milestones, is because my career has been pretty broad rather than very deep. I've been in different sectors, different roles and different countries and they've all led me to where I am now. But to be honest, it's not like there was a grand master plan when I set out. As for the big milestones, I started out in consumer goods marketing, and I'm probably a marketer at heart. I tried my hand at consulting, but I didn't like it all that much and what I didn't love about consulting was the tangible adrenaline and accountability of results. I totally get that some people love that, but it wasn't for me. I then went into technology by the telco route rather than straight into digital and I've now been in digital technology ever since. One of my first big milestones was my time at eBay and it was a big milestone for several reasons. One, it was a proper internet only, pureplay business in a nascent time as I joined in 2004. Although this was post-IPO, it certainly was still a time of triple digit growth, and the business was very much in scale up mode. Another milestone is that during my time at eBay, I kind of graduated from choosing not to be a CMO but wanting to become a general manager. I later got pulled back into marketing roles temporarily but ultimately went back into those general management roles. eBay is also the first role where I went from having a local team to suddenly having a regional remit and hence had to manage a portfolio of teams, businesses and functions so it was quite a big learning period for me. The last thing I should say is that I was at eBay when the great financial crisis hit in 2008, so enter a period of layoffs and uncertainty right? This was the period in my career where I first encountered significant crisis management and it taught me a lot about how you deal with a downturn and not just when things are up and to the right. I then went through a digital transformation role in a legacy company and I can tell you that it is not for the faint of heart. I didn't know that when I first went into it but I'm glad I did it. My skin is therefore thicker and has a few scars but I think the opportunity of being a pure tech person who then tries to take inherent pure tech knowledge into a legacy company to ask "how do you actually apply that to a change management scenario" was a very interesting experience. The other thing was that in that role, I was more of a functional leader. I was a Chief Digital Officer, a Chief Information Officer, Chief Transformation officer and so on, so it was very much a digital technology transformation role. And then for my last two roles, they've been more your typical regional managing director of a global company with a remit over a European or European/Middle East and Africa P&L which is what I do now at Xero.
Given your range of experiences then, what really piqued your interest in taking this role with Xero? What was the challenge and what did the role offer you?
There are a few questions I asked myself when I assess roles, and I certainly did that for Xero. Probably the most important question is, "do I feel ready to personally have an impact?" That's what I thrive on, that's what I enjoy doing and having an impact both on the team and the people that I will manage as well as on actual business outcomes, is box number one. Second, culture. I only say that because I've gotten that wrong in the past where I didn't do my due diligence on culture, and I ended up in corporate cultures that were quite destructive. I don't want to do that again so I spend more time interrogating that. Xero is probably one of the most endearing cultures I've ever worked within, it genuinely is just a really nice company to be a part of. And then the third one is, what does the business actually do, and is the purpose of what they do something I can get behind? There are obviously outstanding businesses out there in SaaS, but some of them do things that I'm just not very excited about. However, helping small businesses by giving them access to better numbers, is something I can get behind. Also, I have generally found that working in the small business environment is very enriching, so Xero ticked that box for me.
In your role you are obviously spread across multiple markets. How do you align Xero’s vision and strategy across so many markets while simultaneously catering for the individuals needs as I’m sure it is not a one size fits all approach?
I think you've hit the nail on the head as compared to other sectors or activities, accounting and bookkeeping are incredibly customized market by market. And so this assumption that a single global platform is going to be able to satisfy many markets is wrong, and that's probably why you don't have a lot of big global players in the space. As such you very quickly have to decide that with the resources you have available - especially in product and technology which tends to be your bottleneck - do you double down on continuing to be competitive in the main markets and making sure that you continue to develop new features and functionality, or do you spread those resources thin by going after several markets? We've chosen to very clearly focus on our biggest markets and those tend to be the markets that have kind of Commonwealth accounting practices. We were born out of New Zealand so New Zealand, Australia, the UK, South Africa, Canada and the US are very natural markets for us to operate in. They're English speaking, they do have nuances and differences when it comes to say payroll legislation or tax legislation, but they're common enough that our product really works and then we're able to round out the nuances in differences with additional product development. So that is focus number one. We do sell our software into many other markets, and sometimes we will not be able to fully satisfy all the nuances of that market's requirements, however, I speak to customers say in Germany or France or Spain who use and love Xero. They use it in English - or rather their customer support is in English - and still, it's better than some of the products they have available to them in their home. The last thing I would say is, we leverage our API's quite a bit. We allow many external parties to build on our API to then potentially build bespoke functionality which helps Xero work better in market. It's one of the things we do in South Africa quite aggressively for example. We satisfy many of our South African environments by leveraging our API and building some of our own features with external developers.
To continue the theme around the local markets, how do you think about talent, deployment and more broadly how your organization works within those different markets?
In different roles I've faced different situations which have warranted a slightly different solution many times. However, the first thing I'd say is that I haven't found any substitute other than travelling to said markets to get to know the market and its dynamics. COVID was terrible for me because I felt shackled. I do like getting on a plane, I do like spending time with the teams and so I go down and visit the team in South Africa for example. I think from a talent, skill set and capability deployment, it really depends on what you're looking for. Ultimately, there are certain types of roles - especially in some SaaS environments - where you will want some hard-hitting commercial sales roles, where again, I haven't found a replacement to finding your talent locally. Someone who understands the market, understands the culture and can basically knock down doors is what you need. For some other roles however, that are more regional coordination type roles, or roles that will become more senior roles that have a remit over various markets, that is where I will typically look for people that have worked in various cultures or various environments. In my experience, these people will just do better because they're more sensitive to the fact that they work in multiple cultures.
“There's a lot of smoke and mirrors out there and everybody suddenly believes that they know AI and what it is but we all know it's not that easy”
You have been involved in scaling lots of different businesses but at Xero specifically, are there any lessons around scaling that you have learned or has there been situations that you haven’t encountered previously?
Xero is quite particular in its scaling approach in the sense that even though our end customer is the small business, the channel to that small business is either direct - and we do have a very strong channel to them - or via accounting and bookkeeping practices. I think Xero understood that from day one and has very clearly and purposefully built a relationship in our accounting and bookkeeping practices community. We're not disintermediating them, we sell to them, we partner with them and we use that community to then ultimately get to small businesses. That's quite unique and very different from some of the FinTech’s I've worked at where we really wanted to go straight to the end customer because we could. That is obviously a very economical way to get to the customer, but it just wouldn't work in our industry and we certainly think at Xero that it's one big advantage that we've built that channel.
“Xero understood that from day one and has very clearly and purposefully built a relationship in our accounting and bookkeeping practices community”
Tech is at the forefront and user experience, I'm sure is at the forefront of what you're doing, but beyond that, how do you make sure the business stays at the forefront from an innovation point of view and ensuring you’re staying cutting edge only where it's relevant and appropriate?
Generally speaking with any tech company, it has to have a certain amount of people constantly focused on the next frontier. The challenge is when you become larger, there are always going to be conflicting pressures between the percentage of your tech team that works on maintaining the current platform and keeping that modern, secure and scalable, and the amount of your team that are working on new shiny future developments and innovation. So, we need to maintain that balance in our industry, as do many others. Unsurprisingly, the talk of the town right now is AI and the role AI will play. Our competitors, like us, I’m sure have their AI SWAT teams who are trying to figure out how to either incorporate AI into existing workflows or come up with new products that incorporate AI and what the future of it looks like. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors out there and everybody suddenly believes that they know AI and what it is but we all know it's not that easy. Additionally, if it had been that easy then where was it five years ago? But the reality is there is a real focus on trying to crack that nut.
“Unsurprisingly, the talk of the town right now is AI and the role AI will play”
Do you have dedicated teams that focus on future looking projects?
We do, but while at the same time, being sure to not take our eye off existing core products that still require investment. Again, in the accountancy space for example, you must stay responsive and agile. Just look at the recent changes to employee national insurance. You have to have a team that reacts to that very quickly so that we can reassure our businesses that we have everything covered and that our product will constantly be maintained. So, we really could not afford to take our eyes of this side of the product but we do have dedicated teams looking to the future.
“we really could not afford to take our eyes of this side of the product but we do have dedicated teams looking to the future”
What are some challenges that you have faced recently, and can you tell us how you had to adapt or how you have overcome them as the past 12 months have been tumultuous for everyone haven’t they?
I have to say there is a part of it where experience helps greatly. I’ve now been in a professional environment for 30 years. I was in Mexico in 1993, when the Peso plummeted, and there was a big inflation crisis. I also mentioned the GFC before as well and so ironically, even though COVID was new and tough and there was no instruction manual for it, it wasn’t my first crisis as a leader or as a manger. There's something to be said in having been in the trenches before as you know the tough years will happen and you need to make sure that you keep your calm and that you're quite structured during these times. I talked earlier about the great financial crisis. It was the first time where as a manager, I had to go into workforce reduction exercises, and it wasn't a pleasant experience. I was in France at the time and French labour legislation makes it particularly colourful, but I learned a lot from that. With COVID I was with SumUp in Berlin at a time when we had to send everyone home and we went through the whole dilemma of how to deal with that. That was certainly new to me in terms of the specific COVID experience but not new to me in terms of the fact that it was a crisis and the only way to get through it is to get on with it. Certainly, the last two years has also had its ups and downs when you look at the state of the economy in the UK between inflation, interest rates and the cost-of-living crisis. The markets are definitely going through a rough patch, but I feel it's manageable as I've been there before.
How would you say your leadership style has evolved and is it something you’ve tried to consciously work on, or has it happened organically?
It has definitely evolved just because 30 years of experience hopefully will shape you and continue adding layers as you come across and learn from new situations. I'd probably say I fall into the gentle coach category - if that's a category - and I guess what I mean by that is, there's a few things that I've quite consciously learned and applied over the years. One, active listening skills. Even when you're the manager or the leader, you're most likely not the smartest person in the room. You're certainly not the smartest expert in each one of the specific topics that are being discussed and if you barge into the room issuing grand statements and orders, then you're shutting down the intelligent people that are around you. So, when you have a diverse team of people around you, make sure you listen and let them voice their points of view. Not only do you learn from that, but it ultimately makes you look good because you'll take on all of that information that you're hearing. I've certainly learned to appreciate active listening over the years. Secondly, and I think I just alluded to it, I've learned to appreciate diversity. I don't just say that because it's a topical thing. I've now been around enough non-diverse and diverse teams to see the difference. There's just no question that diverse teams give you a wealth of points of view and experiences that can help you. This pertains to all forms of diversity from neurodiversity to gender and culture and language. The more diverse points of view you can surround yourself with, the better. And then the other thing - something I used to be intimidated by, but thankfully I'm not anymore - is to just hire people that are smarter and better than you. You'll learn from them, they'll make your life easier, and if one day they go past you, well good on them, so be it and celebrate it. Why should you feel threatened by being surrounded by really smart people?
It’s hard to look into a crystal ball but what future trends do you see developing in the tech sector that could dramatically change the way companies operate?
You mentioned AI before, do you think it all lies there?
There's no doubt that AI and robotic process automation will automate a lot of workflows that are still very manual and involve a lot of people. But let's be honest, it's not the sexy work or the value-add work that AI will deal with. I'm a big believer that there is a humanity and an intimacy even in this conversation we're having now that no AI or GPT will be able to replace. When I think about the bookkeeping in the accounting world for example, there's something to be said about a small business that is about to go broke, sitting at their dinner table with their receipts and having someone sit next to them saying, "Hey, calm down, I got this. I'm going to help you and we're going to figure this out". Now the fact that those accountants and bookkeepers may have better AI tools to automate the bank reconciliation and the cash flow statements then great, that's awesome, but I think the value out of that human interaction is vital. If anything, it is probably only going to get more valuable and stand out more. So, I embrace AI. I think AI is one of the most fascinating things that's coming our way. I see why it may be intimidating but I think if you learn to harness it rather than confront, it'll be really exciting but ultimately we cannot turn our back on that human element.
“I'm a big believer that there is a humanity and an intimacy even in this conversation we're having now that no AI or GPT will be able to replace.”
Beyond your role in the business, what is the one thing you can share that people might be surprised to learn about you?
Over the past four or five years, I’ve developed a real passion for wine – you might think that I mean drinking it which I of course do enjoy, but it’s not just the drinking of it! I have completed two separate WSET (Wine & Spirits Education Trust) certifications levels and have also completed three different Wine Scholar Guild certifications. My go to when I just need to put the work aside is to memorise Italian DOCs and DOCGs or territory names and grape varieties and then try to put that memorisation to the test by taking an actual examination and collecting those certificates. You could say I’ve become a bit of a wine geek over the last few years.
If you could choose a superpower, what would it be and why?
I'm sure this wouldn't be a superpower to most other people, but I'm sure it would help me and that is focus. I like diversity, I like having a lot of things going on at same time but the flip side of that is it can be easy for me to get distracted. I'm one of those people that's in the middle of writing an email and SMSing and also messaging on slack so if I could just focus more, I'm sure I could be a lot more productive.
Do you have any books you've read or podcasts you’ve listened to or any other sort of resource that you’ve found particularly helpful?
This may not be the answer you want but I tend to find more inspiration from adventure and leadership stories than I do from academic business books. Something like Endurance by Shackleton, or stories about Mawson's Will who was an Australian Antarctic explorer give me a lot of inspiration. Even when I think of podcasts, I've listened to a whole bunch of the classical ones, but I probably remember the Bear Grylls type of stories more, and that never give up kind of attitude, than some of the "Diary of a CEO" type content. Don't get me wrong, I consume both of them, but the ones that I find more memorable tend to be the ones that inspire me rather than the ones that give me a new framework to think about things.
